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// Boobies. / - casual synchronicity — LiveJournal
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aaangyl
aaangyl
YES WE CAN HAS!
Wed, Apr. 30th, 2008 04:51 pm
// Boobies. /

39CommentReply

aaangyl
aaangyl
YES WE CAN HAS!
Thu, May. 1st, 2008 04:33 am (UTC)

So, the statement "I am/am not a failure" - that's suggesting your personhood, your self, your inside, can be a failure. No, I think that is untrue. You can fail at the /action of/ trying to communicate. That does not make your /personhood/ a failure. This is very very important to grasp, deeply. You are not the same thing as your actions, but you are in control of and responsible for them.

Next, I don't really know you personally at all, and I think we both know that. Those paragraphs and paragraphs were just stabs in the dark at things relating to the issues the OSBP raised, because you asked for things to DO rather than NOT DO.

The only thing I was directing to you specifically was that the smell of fear was strong in your responses to this topic. I doubt I'm the only one that sensed that. Expressing fear IS NOT failing at communicating. Not noticing you were expressing (something that would be read as) fear at first IS NOT failing at communication. Wanting some affirmation to take off the sting of recognizing something unpleasant in oneself is ALSO okay - but you're not entitled to it from anyone but yourself. ;). I'm going to respond with some more clarification and questions, and we can practice communicating right here and now!

I think you shouldn't run from that fear. I think that you might benefit from sitting with it and checking it out more closely. Making it go away with affirmations is just as much not reconciling it as making it go away by denying it. Sit with it - the breathing is to keep you grounded while you sit with it. Emotions are there FOR A REASON. They serve a PURPOSE. They're pointers, they indicate things that need to be experienced, have attention paid to them, be resolved. They're yours, a part of you, something you get to experience. Respect them, love them if you can. In order to accept and respect other people's emotions, you must be able to do it with your own first.

And if I thought people could be "hopeless" at improving their communication skills, I definitely wouldn't spend the amount of time it took to type that all out trying to outline things one can do to improve. Neither of us is trolling here. Holding on to that "hopeless" notion is a great way to absolve yourself of responsibility, isn't it? "I'm just hopeless, it's not my fault." STOP THAT. You don't have to try to get better, but you at the least need to acknowledge that it is your choice to work on it or not. Most people don't, and still manage to have full lives and make babies, cuz nature is awesome like that. But I'm not going to let you shirk your power on my shift in my comments. :)

I said - this is important - that "nerd culture" was full of fail in communication. Are you nerd culture? (The "fumbling, overly-blunt honesty" line was actually me thinking about how very charming I found those qualities in MY boyfriend as he fumbled his way into my heart.) I made a big series of generalizations, and you recognized some aspects of them from yourself, and you probably projected yourself in as the source of what I was talking about. That's giving me waaaay too much credit. I'm utterly not ualified to make those sorts of statements about you as an individual. Mindfulness. What did you identify with? Why do you think you identified with it? What is scary about that? The fact that you had a strong reaction means there's something very important inside that wants your attention. Will you honor it?


ReplyThread Parent

aaangyl
aaangyl
YES WE CAN HAS!
Thu, May. 1st, 2008 07:38 am (UTC)

OSBP: Open Source Boob Project, the thing that's spawned the n+1 entries like this lately.

I am not my actions/feelings: This derives from a meditative practice that often involves long sitting meditation. "I can observe my actions. I can control my actions. I am not my actions. I observe the air flowing through my respiratory system. This body has breath. I can observe this body having breath, so I am not this body. I experience thoughts and urges. They arise, I acknowledge them, and they pass. I am not my thoughts and urges. I feel emotions. Pleasant and unpleasant, I experience them, I honor them. But I am not them." with the far distant shore being "joyfully participating in the suffering of life". Studies suggest you can actually learn to control your brainwaves and re-structure neural pathways through such exercises, though you can still get a lot of benefits from less intense work than it takes to be able to gain such things.

Here's a super secret, you ready? You can get feedback by asking for it. BUT there's some tricks. If you ask someone for feedback, you absolutely need to turn on the "communication" skill as best you can when you get your answer. If you feel yourself waiting for them to finish taking so you can refute them, they're probably going to think, "great, here I've spent time trying to give honest feedback, and he's not even listening to me. He thinks what he thinks and he doesn't care what I think, he just wants to tell me I'm wrong as a representative of "everyone else"." So if they WERE trying to give you honest feedback, they're never going to try again, and if they were tailoring their feedback to please or not offend you, because they want to be liked, dismissing their feedback isn't going to make either of you feel liked is it? I'm really hammering on this because it's really important. When people give feedback that's really worth something, chances are VERY GOOD that it's going to hit a nerve in some way. That's how this stuff WORKS. Feel the feeling, breathe, ponder it, whatever, but don't re-ACT out of that place, don't give your power to the emotion that is not you. Take a step back and look at the larger picture. If this person is being usefully honest with you, they're taking some big risks. You might /not like them/ if their feedback hits a nerve. They've already gone out on a limb and decided to trust that when you asked for solid feedback, you meant even if you don't see or agree with it, and you will value receiving it, and you will put in the effort to understand what they're taking the risk to tell you. You also need to keep in mind that this person might not be a great communicator either, and might phrase things badly, or that you communicate differently (a fair assumption) - you can pick up at that point and try to dig out something more specific that you can understand with followup questions if that seems to help, or you can forget about the feedback and just work on understanding how they're trying to communicate. People who are lying for whatever reason will often crumble when asked to move from vague to specific. (It's a savvy move to not actually confront them about it if you've asked for feedback several times and gotten vague answers or suspect they're lying to you. If they are, they might not be consciously lying, they might just plain be wrong, or projecting themselves in, or other unconscious shenannigannery. Just mentally mark them as an unreliable source, and don't go to them for feedback anymore. Simple.)


ReplyThread Parent
aaangyl
aaangyl
YES WE CAN HAS!
Thu, May. 1st, 2008 07:38 am (UTC)


Doing this again and again, and you'll eventually wind up with some "safe people", who are, as far as you can tell, honest and accurate about reporting their internal experiences of their encounters with and observations of you, whom you've nurtured a relationship with by listening to what they have to say, appreciating it even if you don't agree with it, and conversing with them to understand them. You might have to go through the attempts a WHOLE LOT of times to find these people, and I'm afraid I can't think of a way to describe how to know you've found them. Maybe someone else has found a way to articulate it somewhere out there. I like to call this "a friend" or "a good friend", but those terms come loaded with such different ideas that instead I'm describing the role. It is a person that you can both be imperfect with each other, and that's ok, because you've developed a history of being imperfect in front of each other and you're both still there and trying to help each other grow. You'll often find that these people have that sort of relationship with their OTHER friends too, because THAT'S HOW THEY RELATE to people. That's really important in verifying a real safe person. They're not just safe for you, they're safe for all the people they care about, they carry a consistency in their communication. They're "authentic". And you don't find them by performing, you find them by being authentic yourself, and then what they're drawn to isn't some facade that you need to constantly remember the rules of, it's something that's naturally coming out of you. Refer to what you mentioned having more success when you weren't obsessing over trying to make people like you, but felt more "in your element". Right there in your own language I think we can both see that you get a lot more value out of such encounters. Maybe they're worth favoring, and even worth a series of fails to come by?

I think this comment is too big now, and I need to quit for the night too. I sincerely hope there's been something helpful in all this for you, 'cuz I'm exhausted! ^_^


ReplyThread Parent


aaangyl
aaangyl
YES WE CAN HAS!
Fri, May. 2nd, 2008 12:43 am (UTC)

You can email my LJ address (on my profile)! I appear to be going out to sushi tonight, but I can prolly respond tomorrow!


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